Sydney
9 February 2003

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Peace, peace, peace - that's the message from Medjugorje

Churches together under one roof

Peace, peace, peace - that's the message from Medjugorje

Ivan Dragicevic ... even before Our Lady comes 'I can feel her closeness in my heart'

Medjugorje visionary Ivan Dragicevic has embarked on a whistlestop tour of Australia, with eight speaking dates across Australia in 10 days. He took time out to talk to Damir Govorcin about various issues including war with Iraq, homosexuality, clergy sexual abuse, cancer, AIDS and heaven and hell.

CW: Can you describe what the Virgin Mary looks like?

ID: There aren't enough words to describe how beautiful Our Lady is. I could say that she has a grey dress, white veil, blue eyes, rosy cheeks, black hair, floats on a cloud, and a crown of stars. With every meeting with Our Lady, we always prepare with praying the rosary, and we await her coming. When Our Lady comes about 6.40pm, but even before she comes, I can feel her closeness in my heart.

And then at that moment when I go to kneel that is when Our Lady comes. When Our Lady comes I no longer see anyone in front of me, or behind me, I just see her. Most of the time Our Lady comes joyful and at the beginning of her arrival she always greets us with the greeting: "Praise be Jesus, dear children of mine". Sometimes she comes with angels, then after that greeting she prays over us with outstretched hands, she blesses us all with her motherly blessing.

She blesses any sacred objects that people have brought with them, then after that I recommend all the people who are at the apparitions, all the sick, and those who have specifically asked for petitions. Then after that, I talk with her. If she has a message she will give it to me - a message for the world, a message for priests, a message for families, a message for youth. Mainly the message Our Lady gives is for the whole world.

As soon as I get the message I pass it on. I write it down straight away after the apparition, and then that message is sent to the whole world. Every time Our Lady goes after the end of the apparition, she always goes in the light of a cross with the greeting: "Go in peace dear children of mine".

I see Our Lady three-dimensional; that means I see and talk to her like I can with you. I can touch her. If you ask me how old she is I say around 26 or 27 years old.

CW: You say you can touch Our Lady?

ID: I say I can touch her if I want to, but I haven't. My children have. This was at Christmas time, when I lifted my children up and just looking at the reaction in my children's eyes when they were touching her is difficult to put into words.

My children - one is seven, one is three, and one is 16 months old - and you could see on their face the experience they had, that they lived. I didn't ask them about it because they are still young to describe this and how they felt. My children will be able to carry that gift and appreciate it.

CW: The world is headed for war with Iraq and there's a lot of fighting all around the world. What has Our Lady conveyed to you about the future of mankind?

ID: It's all clear to us through these last 21 years what Our Lady is wanting from us. Our Lady has said: "Dear children, I'm coming because my Son is sending me that I help you. Dear children, Peace, Peace, Peace. Peace must be between man and God and among men. Dear children, this world, this mankind are heading towards a great danger and heading towards destroying itself."

We already see at the beginning of Our Lady's apparition, what is her greatest desire and that is peace. That message of peace, along with the message of prayer, is the most common message Our Lady is calling us to for the last 21 years. Our Lady is constantly asking us to pray for peace, that we open ourselves to peace, that we open ourselves to the Holy Spirit. Next to the messages of peace and prayer, Our Lady is calling us to convert, that we come back to God. Only in God is peace.

CW: Are these the end times?

ID: No. We don't talk about the end of the world or the second coming of Jesus Christ. Our Lady didn't come to scare us; she doesn't come to talk to us about darkness. She is coming as the mother of hope. She wants to bring a light into this world. She wants to bring us out of this darkness, and she wants to take us into a light and a new life. She wants to lift up this weary world, the weary families, weary young, weary Church. She desires to lift us up and strengthen us. She says: "Dear children, if you be strong, the Church will be strong. If you be weak, the Church will be weak. You are the living Church. Dear children, this world, this mankind has hope and has a future. But you have to begin to change. You have to come back to God."

CW: The Church has been under attack in recent times following the revelation of clergy sexual abuse. Has Our Lady shared with you her feelings on the matter?

ID: Our Lady hasn't said anything directly, but you can see Our Lady indirectly is calling us to pray specifically for this intention. Our Lady is always praying for her children. Looking at the world not just with the priests, but looking at the crisis of the family. How many divorces there are, how many abortions, how many homeless children … Our Lady is praying for all of this. That is why she came. She wants to tell us about the things that aren't good, and take us towards the good, show us what we have to do and that is to take Christ's gospel and live it. Return prayer to the family. Go to Mass, go to Confession, kneel in front of the cross, read the Bible in the family, forgive each other and love each other.

CW: The Church has made its views clear on homosexuality. Has Our Lady made her thoughts known if homosexuality is going against God?

ID: In a concrete way, Our Lady hasn't said anything about this. The Church is more competent to give a ruling on this. Our Lady is not entering into this situation. Our Lady just always prays.

CW: Can you describe heaven and hell?

ID: Our Lady has showed me heaven, but hasn't shown me hell. She wanted to show me hell, but I was scared. When I first saw heaven, I was with Our Lady and I sawpeople walking, praying, singing, and they were wearing blue and white long robes. They were very happy. These people were, say, 35 to 40 years old. Heaven is a place without boundaries. I didn't see any fences. It is just its own special place. I was there for about three to four minutes. I can't describe heaven's beauty. Remember what is said in the Gospel: "Eye has not seen, ear has not heard for those who come to know and love God."

CW: Does it disappoint you and Our Lady that the Church has not given Medjugorje its full blessing?

ID: No, I am not disappointed. The Church is always cautious. She follows. She asks and she is following the messages. I am praying for this intention. I wish to say what is said in the Gospel: "By their fruits you will know them."

CW: In recent times, a lot of people have claimed that they see and speak to the Virgin Mary. Has Our Lady spoken about people coming as false prophets?

ID: Our Lady has never said anything about this, and I have never asked her. A lot of people come to us and say that they see Our Lady. My position is that I can't say anything if Our Lady hasn't said anything. I would say to these people go and see your priest for advice.

CW: There has been criticism that the visionaries have made wealth from Medjugorje. How do you respond to this?

ID: All I can say is I will pray for these people. It's sad to say that there are a lot of people who think like that. It's nothing new, no surprise.

CW: Is AIDS a punishment from God?

ID: Our Lady hasn't said anything in a concrete way about this. I will say though, that 2.3 million people in Africa die from this disease. And that is too many. It's a problem because the rich and the poor aren't helping each other. Men don't know how to deal and share with each other.

CW: There are people who suffer from a disease, such as cancer, and are in a lot of pain? Is it God's way of testing their faith?

ID: I meet a lot of people, especially the sick, on a daily basis. People come to me who are sick with cancer and all sorts of things. I always tell people, and I tell myself this, sickness no matter what type, we have to take and carry this as the will of God; that God is glorified through this. If it's God's will, he will make us better.

CW: What needs to be done to achieve peace in the world?

ID: Peace in man's heart, peace in the family and then later that peace occurs. War always begins in man's heart and then it produces itself in other things. Every advice and wisdom outside of God is destined to fail. God has to be in the centre, because only in God is peace. Whoever works with God goes towards peace and the world goes towards peace.

CW: What are your hopes and expectations for your trip to Australia?

ID: I am hoping that the eight meetings will truthfully be one of spiritual renewal. I hope the Holy Spirit with his grace will pour himself out upon everyone. And I hope that at every one of our meetings, every person takes with them to pray in the family.

CW: What do you see the role Medjugorje plays in the lives of people?

ID: I believe Our Lady has touched so many in the world because she is a mother. A lot of people, not just Catholics, have felt her closeness. There have been lots of conversions in Anglicans, Protestants, and Methodists. They are all believers, but they were far away from their mother. They came to realise that they must have a mother.These people are praying the rosary, going to Mass, reading the Bible. They have become big instruments in the hands of Our Lady and God. In today's world, we need these types of instruments. These people are going to carry Christ's word into this world. Today's world needs missionaries, and we are called to be missionaries.

CW: Do you feel your life is blessed because you can see Our Lady?

ID: I could never in my whole life have dreamt that this was going to happen to me. Prior to my 16 years of age, I was very introverted, very shy. I was a practical believer. I went to Church and prayed with my family. And heaps of times I couldn't wait for prayer to finish. At the beginning of the apparitions, it was a huge shock for me.Every day during these last 21 years I always ask myself: "Why me? Isn't there someone better than me? Can I finish everything that you have asked me to do?" For my life, this is a big gift, a big joy, but a big responsibility. I know that God has given me a lot. It's not easy, it's not simple to be with Our Lady every day for about five to 10 minutes, or sometimes 30 minutes, then after every apparition I have to return to this earth and live here.

CW: Medjugorje was untouched during the war in Bosnia. Was it divine intervention or just good luck?

ID: I am sure it was God. I know that. That is all I will say on this.

CW: Tell me about yourself and your life?

ID: I don't like to talk much about myself, but in short my biography is this: I got married in 1994, and my wife is an American from Boston. We have three children - Christina, Mikaela and Daniel. We live in Medjugorje for six months and Boston for six months. In the winter we live in America because the kids go to school there. We live a type of life that our Lady is wanting from us. My life in the last 21 years has been a school, a school of peace, love and prayer. Everything that Our Lady has given, I want to bring into my family. I want to be a living sign - an instrument among men, a transmission - Our Lady, me, the world.

CW: Do people treat you like a celebrity?

ID: I don't wish to be this, but sometimes people make you like that. I just want to be the person I was when I was 16. You have to be humble, and you've really got to work at that.

CW: Is anyone beyond redemption?

ID: We can all be saved. God is always merciful. We all have a chance and we must take this opportunity.

CW: Do you have any final message for the people of Australia?

ID: We must hold on to the message of peace and we must live this peace. A lot of people talk about prayer, but we have to live prayer. Only by returning to peace and returning to prayer in our families can we spiritually heal our families and the world. There is no other path. In today's world, people are spiritually sick. Our Lady comes to give us divine medicine to put on our wounds. She is concerned about our salvation.

Although the Medjugorje shrine is enormously popular it is not an official shrine. It has been under investigation for some time by the Church, which has yet to declare the visions authentic. The Church has become more cautious of late regarding visions because of the upsurge in the number of people claiming to have had visions of Our Lady. Some of these 'visionaries' have proved false.